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Bitcoin above $8100 USD right now.

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Postby pod on 11 Jan 2018 10:06

Re: Bitcoin above $8100 USD right now.

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Postby JMT on 11 Jan 2018 17:57

Re: Bitcoin above $8100 USD right now.

I keep searching for the quotes that Tech is alluding to where someone made the case for bitcoin to be adopted as one's primary source of currency and investment, but I can't seem to find them.
Last edited by JMT on 11 Jan 2018 18:25, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby pod on 11 Jan 2018 18:18

Re: Bitcoin above $8100 USD right now.

IMG_0652.jpg


Sometimes you just have to step outside. Then go back inside and enjoy the natural heat of mining.
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Postby TechJunkie on 11 Jan 2018 18:19

Re: Bitcoin above $8100 USD right now.

JMT wrote:I keep searching for the quotes that Tech is alluding to where someone made the case for bitcoin to be adopted as one's primary source of currency and investment, but I can't seem to find them.


Okay, so then we agree that Bitcoin is not useful as currency. It failed as a micro-payment system, and also as currency. A Bitcoin, then, is just a string of numbers that Bitcoin enthusiasts agree has value.

So then why do these strings of numbers have intrinsic value? You (JMT) and Shaun are dancing around that question.

Bitcoins have no value unless people collectively agree that they have value. The price went up because of speculation. Just like those tulips. At least you could plant a garden of tulips, but you can't do anything with a string of numbers. What are you going to do with a string of numbers when the Bitcoin fad passes and everybody moves on to some new fad?

Endorsing these strings of numbers as an investment seems to contradict the core of your argument that gold is better than fiat currency. I'm not labeling Bitcoins as fiat currency, I'm comparing Bitcoin non-currency with fiat currency on the basis that neither are backed by anything of real value. Venezuela's "petro" crypto currency is at least backed with oil reserves. (Not that they have any value if Venezuela is incapable of pumping the oil.)

The main difference between your attitude toward fiat dollars and Bitcoins appears to be that the government doesn't control monetary policy with Bitcoins. So it's an ideological thing.

Using political ideology to guide investment strategy is demonstrably a bad idea. Two examples: The first is that after over seven years since our talk about gold being a foolproof investment, the return has been about zero percent. The second is that since the first page of this thread about how Bitcoins are a great investment, the return has been about negative ten percent. Maybe this Libertarian governments-are-bad ideology is not the best way to guide investment strategy.
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Postby JMT on 11 Jan 2018 18:26

Re: Bitcoin above $8100 USD right now.

Pod, I was talking to a former member of the blue site over the new year who bought some at $500 on a whim. Tech is right, that recent dip just crushed his investment. Not sure how he will recover.
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Postby pod on 11 Jan 2018 18:43

Re: Bitcoin above $8100 USD right now.

Safest bet is mining, like we discussed. Trading can reap huge rewards, but it's a fucking roller coaster and if you're not right in the head you'll end up having an aneurysm.

But the long-term fun is mining. BTC and so much more.

http://whattomine.com/coins

http://whattomine.com/asic

Some of them are shitcoins but it's easy to tell which ones are actually useful.
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Postby TechJunkie on 11 Jan 2018 19:10

Re: Bitcoin above $8100 USD right now.

Mining is fun and all, but it costs real money. You're converting real money into strings of numbers that a bunch of Bitcoin enthusiasts collectively agree have value. You will only see a positive return on that investment if people continue to collectively believe in it. When some new fad comes along and the get-rich-quick masses who jumped into Bitcoin all get out, the value of a Bitcoin will collapse back to its intrinsic value. Which is zero. A Bitcoin is just a bunch of numbers.
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Postby TechJunkie on 11 Jan 2018 20:37

Re: Bitcoin above $8100 USD right now.

The North American Bitcoin conference, next week at the Knight center in Miami, has stopped accepting Bitcoin as payment.

[chortle]

Due to network congestion and manual processing, we have closed ticket payments using Cryptocurrencies — Hopefully, next year there will be more unity in the community about scaling and global adoption becomes reality.

https://btcmiami.com/tickets/


...as Bitcoin dropped in value about 3% just today alone.
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Postby slamminshaun on 11 Jan 2018 20:50

Re: Bitcoin above $8100 USD right now.

TechJunkie wrote:Shaun, ‘It has value because a whole school of economics says so’, is an appeal to authority.


LOL!!!! When the Slammer says that a bunch of economists have correctly identified that subjective individual preferences are ultimately the source of all value, it's kind of hard to also claim that the Slammer said the economists themselves are authoritatively establishing the value on behalf of those individuals, unless your name is TechJunkie. LOL!!!!!

TechJunkie wrote:I wonder how well your chortling and dodging will age, after the bubble.


LOL!!!! It will age just fine. The Slammer will quote himself from page 4 of this thread. Case closed.

TechJunkie wrote:So then why do these strings of numbers have intrinsic value? You (JMT) and Shaun are dancing around that question.


LOL!!!! When did His Clairvoyance ever say it had intrinsic value? Where's the quote? I can quote myself over and over again, but you can't even quote me once. LOL!!!!

TechJunkie wrote:The main difference between your attitude toward fiat dollars and Bitcoins appears to be that the government doesn't control monetary policy with Bitcoins. So it's an ideological thing.


LOL, guilty as charged. The Slammer is absolutely opposed to the idea that the government can snap its fingers and arbitrarily decree the value of anything. Millions and millions of individuals with unique subjective preferences coming together in an open market are the only ones who can sort that kind of thing out. This was covered earlier in the thread, but once again, you're too busy making up fantasy quotes that you're missing the real ones.

TechJunkie wrote:Using political ideology to guide investment strategy is demonstrably a bad idea. Two examples: The first is that after over seven years since our talk about gold being a foolproof investment, the return has been about zero percent. The second is that since the first page of this thread about how Bitcoins are a great investment


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! While Tech continues his wild fantasies about conversations that never happened, back in the real world, on page 4 of this thread...

slamminshaun wrote:But when all else fails, he will revert to his favorite tactic, creating a smokescreen and claiming the Slammer said things he never said, like Bitcoin is a great investment


Keep it coming Tech. I'm sure everyone will eventually forget about this quote from 7 years ago....

TechJunkie wrote: BitCoin is the latest in a long string of failed micropayment and virtual currency ventures


Talk about quotes that didn't age well. LOL!!!!!!!
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Postby TechJunkie on 11 Jan 2018 21:22

Re: Bitcoin above $8100 USD right now.

Right now I feel like you must be fucking with me, because it seems unlikely that you're unable to recognize a speculation bubble when you see one.

It's interesting that all of the babble about gold and fiat really comes down to this: You resent the government's involvement in the dollar. All of the shunning of fiat currency because of it not being backed by anything was bullshit. You'll go nuts for a bunch of numbers on a hard drive in a data center that aren't backed by anything other than a willful collective hallucination -- as long as the government doesn't control it.

You'll admit that it has no intrinsic value. And we agree that it isn't useful as currency, since it takes almost an hour to do a transaction. And we agree that it was never useful as the micropayment platform that it was intended to be. But you want to argue that "failed" is not an appropriate label because of the speculation bubble. And only because of the speculation bubble. As the price drops by over 30% in the last month and by over 10% just in the last 24 hours. Well okay then...

I'm not interested in having an argument about the semantics of the word "failed". So can you answer this question? Are you amusing yourself by trolling some Internet stranger or are you putting your money where your mouth is? Are you investing in Bitcoin right now?
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