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Star Wars - The Last Jedi

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Postby slamminshaun on 22 Dec 2017 08:39

Re: Star Wars - The Last Jedi

coach wrote:So, the question is, is Mark Hamill really upset or is he just trying to assuage all his fans and shift all the blame (or accolades, depending) to Johnson?


You decide....

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Postby coach on 22 Dec 2017 14:40

Re: Star Wars - The Last Jedi

slamminshaun wrote:
coach wrote:
coach wrote:We were told that the ennealogy is about the tiny slice of that timeline that focuses on the Skywalkers.


And this trilogy is about them. Kylo is a Skywalker.

Oh duh, right. Okay, so my main complaint boils down to what I said earlier, the really stupid tactics used when fleeing Snoke's capital ship. Not warp blasting the fleet as soon as the shuttles got out. Also, the whole casino act was lame.

One of my friends, and a lot of other people feel the same way, said that he basically liked the movie as a movie, but was not happy that they slaughtered most of the characters he cared about. He pointed out that he didn't really care about Rey, Poe Finn, or Rose.

Also, box office sales are collapsing faster than bitcoin values - https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/20 ... 290b66355c
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Postby JMT on 22 Dec 2017 16:07

Re: Star Wars - The Last Jedi

SPOILER WARNING

Not sure where to begin. They tried to be "different", but to me it just copied the originals again, while adding some tweaks, and the rest fell mostly flat. My observations/gripes, in no particular order...

Rey - ZERO character development. But we have another Jedi training scene, except this time with little to no actual training. Clearly she is the most powerful Jedi ever though, learning almost nothing and still can't be beat. The reason the originals worked so well was every character was well developed. Not the case here.

Finn - you could have edited out his entire story and the movie would have been no different, it was a complete after-thought. The CGI casino planet reeked of the terrible prequels. Riding on the back of an alien animal should have been banned from every future SW movie. Also, when he was about to be executed at the end with his new sidekick/love interest and the entire hanger blows up, very fortunate that everyone gets killed... except them.

Asian girl sidekick - she sure is a great pilot for being a supply clerk.

Kylo - was a bright spot. Adam Driver did a good job in this. But who could have seen him turn on Snoke in a throne room in the middle of trying to flip his sweetheart Rey? Totally original.

Snoke - We hardly knew ya. The death by turned on saber was kind of cool, though.

Leia - she can barely speak her lines, the poor thing. I know she had a hard life, so that's fine. But, once she pulled that floating trick and lived you knew Luke was toast. The new rules state that you can't have a new movie without killing off an old main character. Out with the old, in with the new, because that is not predictable at all. Carrie Fisher gone will now complete the clean sweep trifecta.

Luke - two words... "Jake Skywalker". I am glad to see that Hamill came out against his performance, it was atrocious and I figured he just lost the character to time. Every line was spoken like someone trying to pass a kidney stone. Ruined every scene he was in with overacting. We have been waiting 34 years to hear this man's first words, they tease us with him in the last movie, and the first thing he does is throw his father's light saber off a cliff? Are you fucking kidding me? 34 years and they use this moment for a cheap laugh? Asinine. A microcosm for a lack of any vision in the writing. He's pioneered physical astral projection now using the force, but a 20 year old Rey could kick his ass with a stick. Then later, oh look, it's another climactic old master fighting the young pupil. Gee I wonder what's going to happen here. Oh wait, I was wrong, Luke tricked him! Oh, but now he's dead anyway, in possibly the most unemotional death of all time. Way to put a fresh spin on things, guys! One of greatest protagonists in the history of film, killed off unceremoniously of... straining too hard? Maybe he should have sat on that rock instead of levitating himself at the same time.

Yoda - force ghosts can now interact with the physical world? So is there point to actually being alive? Clearly an immortal Yoda, Obi-wan, Anikan, and Luke would be unstoppable. Maybe that will be the final movie. At least he spoke like he did in the originals and not that ridiculous cartoon character version from the prequels.

Maz - a video phone call during a fight? So forced and dumb. Want to know how she had Luke's light saber all these years? Too bad. The writers can't be bothered with that.

Hyperspace into the enemy ship - actually a cool moment, except I asked myself why they never did this when I was 7 years old. It was probably a good idea to never open this can of worms.

Bombs in space - Silly, even by laws of Star Wars physics.

Throne room saber fight - watching Rey vs. what looked like CGI imperial guards was like an action movie where the bad guys wait and only attack one at a time.

Hoth knock-off base - Rebels defending themselves against imperial walkers on a white planet. But no, it's not a Hoth knock-off because instead of snow, it's salt! See, it's totally different this time.

Last but not least, the injected humor - in addition to the light saber off the cliff, you have that idiotic "can you hear me now" exchange. Ugh, terrible. How are you supposed to respect the villains as villains when they are reduced to comic shtick? Cheap. Took me out of the movie completely.

Broom kid at the end - hey look, more movies! Start cranking em out every year like Fast & Furious.

Maybe I nitpick. Some of these alone would have been easy to look past, but it was a cumulative effect. There seems to be no deep thinking in the writing. It's all superficial. Checkers instead of chess. It pretty much killed any excitement I have for the 3rd one. Just my $0.02.
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Postby benm3 on 24 Dec 2017 17:47

Re: Star Wars - The Last Jedi

^ everything here. I do have hope for the third movie though -- Rian is out and I can't see it being any worse than Last Jedi.
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Postby coach on 26 Dec 2017 17:07

Re: Star Wars - The Last Jedi

I'll 3rd everything JMT said here. I think it can be summed up simply in lazy directing and hubris on Rian's part.

I still the stupidest thing that the SW fanchise ever did was remove Lucas from the creative team. Sure, maybe the prequel trilogy showed that he shouldn't be at the directorial reigns, but still, the original three where he was in the mix were, by almost any fan's estimation, the best.

The shit will hit the fan (or not) with the 3rd/9th movie. Will people actually keep their words to boycott it.? Will JJ save us all from Darth Rian? And what sort of impact will this have on all the side movie project. "Rogue One" did okay, but not near the main movies. If they manage to kill off interest in the main line, will there be any interest in the side stories, anymore?

For me, the thing is, going into the 8th movie, with the previews and backstory, I really expected to like it a lot. Anakin was supposed to bring balance to the Force, and finally, after so many years, Luke was going to fulfill what Darth Vader started, but doing away with the overly self-righteous Jedi Order and bring it back around to its more basic roots of preserving life and peace.

When they called it "The Last Jedi", I was excited because it sounded like they were actually going to get around to finishing the story. I kind of expected Luke to die at the end of the movie and the next Skywalker to follow his legacy into the final movie. What I did not expect was for them to just burn it all down without making any attempt at keeping within the storyline.
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Postby coach on 26 Dec 2017 17:16

Re: Star Wars - The Last Jedi

slamminshaun wrote:
coach wrote:So, the question is, is Mark Hamill really upset or is he just trying to assuage all his fans and shift all the blame (or accolades, depending) to Johnson?


You decide....

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LOL it looks like he is both trying to assuage the fans' righteous anger while also stroking Johnson so he's not black listed.
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Postby slamminshaun on 26 Dec 2017 21:18

Re: Star Wars - The Last Jedi

coach wrote:
slamminshaun wrote:
coach wrote:So, the question is, is Mark Hamill really upset or is he just trying to assuage all his fans and shift all the blame (or accolades, depending) to Johnson?


You decide....

phpBB [media]

LOL it looks like he is both trying to assuage the fans' righteous anger while also stroking Johnson so he's not black listed.


https://twitter.com/hamillhimself/statu ... 3964309505
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Postby coach on 28 Dec 2017 14:43

Re: Star Wars - The Last Jedi

Jeez Hamill, backpedal much? The more he backpedals, the worse he make it. At least his original comments were authentic.
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Postby coach on 28 Dec 2017 16:02

Re: Star Wars - The Last Jedi

My friend said it well on Facebook.
This review is spot on and with that I’m done talking about Star Wars. There are slight spoilers.
I really didn't want to do this . . .
I sat through The Last Jedi a week ago and I have to honestly say it was probably the worst film in the entire series.
Yes, even worse than The Phantom Menace and yes even worse than Revenge of the Sith.
Now before you all roast me allow me to make my case.
Star Wars films are usually known to be capable of standing alone in how they are judged as well as viewed as a part of a coherent whole with the series. We judge each one on their own merits as well as viewing them in connection with all the other movies in the genre.
First off if it sucks Star Wars fans say so. We aren't being a pain and being over judgemental. We aren't being an ass. We are just telling you your product sucks. We don't just look at the whole greater picture of the entire storyline and just accept this is the latest chapter in how it is being presented to us . . We call a spade a spade, or in this case a lemon a lemon. There isn't the "Grand Star Wars Franchise" to be assumed when we look at a single film in it. We say whether we enjoyed it or nearly fell asleep in the theater.
In the Harry Potter series, everyone can honestly admit that there are episodes of that movie series that simply sucked. Why? Because they did. The Prisoner of Azkaban was weak. Part I of the Deathly Hollows blew chunks. But we accepted it as it got us to our goal of the last movie of the series. Standing alone those movies were sub par to the rest of the Harry Potter series which overall was great.
Star Wars is just a completely different animal due to the nature of how it is being released. We don't know how the storyline will express itself movie to movie unlike most films who already have the book out for you to read a year before the movie comes out.
Furthermore Star Wars has DEEP emotional investments for people as well. I was eight years old when the first movie came out and 12 when I saw return of the Jedi. People my age and older have spent a life time waiting for this movie to finally be made and we had VERY SPECIFIC needs to the payout we expected out of it. None of which were done by the writers and producers of this film.
The character of Luke Skywalker is a build up that we have been following through the comics and books for over 35 years. There were so many expectations for his character in this film that in many ways the movie could have written itself for what we needed to see.
We needed to see the Master Jedi Skywalker and we needed to see him lightsaber aloft and taking it directly to the bad guys. We needed him to be the pilar of all that is good and decent in this SciFi/Fantasy world and be the character he was destined to be. We needed to see what Anakin Skywalker COULD have been with the Force if it had been wielded by the paladin like character which his son had become. We needed to see what we had all been promised . . . And none of which this film delivered.
It has nothing to do with how PC the movies have become, or how it has to fit in the overall storyline, or whether there were new characters that didn't fit or seem out of place . . . It's none of that shit.
It is simply because you killed off the one character we have been waiting three and a half decades to see in action and be the pay off for our 8 year old selves who still dreams of being a Jedi and flying an X-Wing.
Congratulations. You literally found the one way to piss off a whole generation of fans and do it in total and absolutely permently. If you had put one tiny bit of thought behind it you might have realized that these films have incredible emotional attachments for those who wish they could go back in time with their parents long gone and re experience those moments we did as a child.
And what you forgot is that these movies don't really belong to this generation that is coming up as much as you may want them too. They belong to that eight year old walking into the theater holding his parents hand back in the late 70's.
And speaking for that 8 year old boy who now sits in my 45 year old body.
You guys all suck.
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Postby pod on 28 Dec 2017 17:10

Re: Star Wars - The Last Jedi

That was a good assessment.

Visually and from a technical point of view, the movie was stunning. They've really come a long way in both technology, and also recognizing the limits of it, i.e. sometimes it's still better to use practical effects, optical effects, and models. I did enjoy the moment of utter silence when the lone Rebel/resistance/whatever they call themselves cruiser ripped through Snoke's ship at hyperspeed.

Sidebar for the nerds: Hyperspace is a different dimension, though objects traveling through it cast 'mass shadows' which can affect stuff in real space, and vice versa. So, the cruiser's mass shadow interacted with Snoke's ship in real space, and the mass shadow of Snoke's ship interacted with the cruiser. Hence, shred-boom-bam.

The casino scene was a little preachy, though to be honest I'm not a big fan of horse racing or dog racing for the same reasons Rose didn't like the racing of those whatever-beasts. Yeah, I'll put someone down who breaks into my home or tries to kill me or my family, but when it comes to dogs, cats, horses, and such, I'm a pushover. Awwwwwww. Yeah shut up.

Leia's "salvation" was a little contrived. I know she's a Force-sensitive, but come one. Ms Pod says she pulled it off because it was life or death. Though all kidding aside they could have just edited right there and avoided the sticky situation for Episode 9...i.e.

How to kill Leia!

• Option 1 - CG and voice samples. They kill her off in the first 15 minutes somehow.

• Option 2 - She "dies" between movies of Force Flu or something. That would be a disgrace to be honest.


Anyway.

As for Rey, she's just really generic and boring now. The telepathic Force instant messenger chat was really hackneyed. It was basically two whiny teenagers bitching. If you want girl power, do it right. Like Leia.

Purple-haired Laura Dern did what she needed to, I guess. Didn't like her, but ramming the cruiser into Snoke's ship at least evened it out. Though in a "real" situation, she actually had no right to keep critical information away from her troops like that.


Kylo is still a whiny bitch with an army.

Snoke was disposable even when he was alive. I guess killing him was the right thing to do. Some people question his ascendancy, but you have to remember that the First Order is a rump state and not the Empire. An idiot could have ascended to the throne. Which seems to be the case. The Supreme Leader is dead. Long live the Supreme Leader.

I like Poe, he kept it real for the most part. His bravado getting the best of him is actually very realistic. He got ahead of himself.

Finn needs some work. I think the pairing with Rose was a little contrived.

They ditched Phasma quick, but shit happens. Makes sense though, since Gwendoline Christie has a full schedule ahead of her for GoT, and in my opinion I wouldn't give that up for 1 last Star Wars movie.

Rose? Well, nothing remarkable but she did fulfill a critical role.

Now, the one character I really hope they develop in the final episode is Benicio del Toro's character, DJ. There's something mildly amusing about putting a twitchy drug-addict into the SW franchise. He doesn't consume Corellian cocaine on screen but I'm sure he's doing lines when no one is looking. He actually really opened the eyes of Finn & Rose when they were on board the stolen shuttle, in that the arms dealer who owned it supplied weapons to both the First Order and the rebels. Which is kind of how it goes down in the real world.

Was it a bad SW movie? Yes, it was. However, I know exactly what Disney is doing - they got this one out the door, fully knowing that everyone, even the boycotters, is going to go see the final episode in 2019.

At this point, I've committed enough of my time to the franchise, 3 more hours won't hurt.

That being said, I'm probably not going to go out of my way to see the spin-offs.
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