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Why do people become terrorists?

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Postby Dade on 18 Apr 2014 01:15

Re: Why do people become terrorists?

I don't know about drones but I do agree that Bundy is a deadbeat lawbreaker and the so-called "patriots" who used women and children as human shields and took up arms against the government should be jailed.

Just because Bundy doesn't want to recognize the Federal government does not mean he's right or that they don't exist and have authority. He's using land that he does not own to graze his cattle for profit. He's a deadbeat trespasser and nothing more.
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Postby slamminshaun on 18 Apr 2014 07:08

Re: Why do people become terrorists?

Dade missed the point. So the Slammer will rephrase into a syllogism:

Harry Reid has said that Bundy's supporters are full-fledged terrorists.
America is in the middle of a war on terror
Suspected terrorists are routinely elimininated using drones
Therefore, Bundy's supporters should have been killed by drones.

The logic is sound.
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Postby Dade on 18 Apr 2014 09:16

Re: Why do people become terrorists?

slamminshaun wrote:Dade missed the point. So the Slammer will rephrase into a syllogism:

Harry Reid has said that Bundy's supporters are full-fledged terrorists.
America is in the middle of a war on terror
Suspected terrorists are routinely elimininated using drones
Therefore, Bundy's supporters should have been killed by drones.

The logic is sound.


I didn't miss the point. The point was stupid so I tried to have a real conversation about the actual subject but, as usual, you have no desire to do that and went right back to your stupid point.

For the record, I don't agree with Reid's assessment. I don't think they're terrorists. Traitors, maybe. Nutjobs, certainly.
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Postby pod on 18 Apr 2014 09:35

Re: Why do people become terrorists?

Here's the interesting argument. It's been established that a lawful government has the right to self-preservation. Sure, our government may be corrupt, but it was lawfully elected by the voters.

Bundy isn't a traitor and he's certainly no terrorist - he just took advantage of a slow-moving bureaucracy that caught up with him decades later.

A pro-2A blogger put it very well - "You have to pick a hill to stand and fight on - Bundy isn't it..." - i.e. even the pro-2A movement, which usually bashes the government, was generally advising to the "nutjobs" that the Bundy situation wasn't the time or the place to do so.

That being said, if it did turn violent, a drone strike wouldn't have been practical. Too many police in close proximity. Drones aren't that precise yet. If Bundy were to be taken out, it would have been a police sniper.
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Postby Dade on 18 Apr 2014 09:41

Re: Why do people become terrorists?

pod wrote:Bundy isn't a traitor and he's certainly no terrorist - he just took advantage of a slow-moving bureaucracy that caught up with him decades later.


He is a tax evader. He and his friends took up arms against the government.
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Postby pod on 18 Apr 2014 09:50

Re: Why do people become terrorists?

Even the nutjobs were advising him not to do that. Our government may be fucked but it's far from the time to really consider armed revolt. Peaceful routes to a better government still exist. We're still at the "ballot box" stage of government reform. I hope we never go past that.

The problem with armed revolt is that a lot of people on both sides get killed and then you have to deal with rebuilding your country and also dealing with insurgents for years to come. It's gonna happen in Venezuela. The shit hit the fan, and whichever side loses, the real die-hards are going to go into the jungles and cause problems for decades later.
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Postby TechJunkie on 18 Apr 2014 10:59

Re: Why do people become terrorists?

I've tried to point out many times before that the more that you focus on words, the further away you get from the concepts that the words represent. You see many examples in this thread. Shaun is completely preoccupied with the word "terrorist", to the point that he's unable to discuss terrorism, counter-terrorism strategy, or anything else other than semantics.
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Postby pod on 18 Apr 2014 11:20

Re: Why do people become terrorists?

Depends on what your definition of "is" is...
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Postby Dade on 18 Apr 2014 11:22

Re: Why do people become terrorists?

pod wrote:Even the nutjobs were advising him not to do that. Our government may be fucked but it's far from the time to really consider armed revolt. Peaceful routes to a better government still exist. We're still at the "ballot box" stage of government reform. I hope we never go past that.

The problem with armed revolt is that a lot of people on both sides get killed and then you have to deal with rebuilding your country and also dealing with insurgents for years to come. It's gonna happen in Venezuela. The shit hit the fan, and whichever side loses, the real die-hards are going to go into the jungles and cause problems for decades later.


Bundy is a disingenuous actor in this story. When asked why he hasn't paid the fees, he gave three reasons...

1. His family has been grazing their cattle on that land, (land he freely admits he does not own), for generations. He somehow believes that this gives him the right to graze his cattle, for profit, on that land forever.

2. He does not recognize the Federal Government and only recognizes the state of Nevada. This is just crazy. Whether he recognizes the Federal Government or not, it still exists and owns the land in question.

3. He hasn't paid taxes in over 20 years. Why now? This is the dumbest excuse of all. He has been fighting this for 20 years. They've given him chance after chance to comply with the law as all other ranchers do who use public land for grazing.

I watched an interview with him and he was crazy and so misinformed and ignorant that it was stunning. He claimed that the Constitution prohibits the Federal Government from owning land. He cited a section and even the right-wing nut doing the interview had to tell him he was dead wrong.

The facts in this case are simple but these people's anti-government bias makes them willfully suspend reality and become willing to stage an armed revolt and call him a patriot. Fucking nuts.
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Postby slamminshaun on 18 Apr 2014 11:54

Re: Why do people become terrorists?

Dade wrote:
slamminshaun wrote:Dade missed the point. So the Slammer will rephrase into a syllogism:

Harry Reid has said that Bundy's supporters are full-fledged terrorists.
America is in the middle of a war on terror
Suspected terrorists are routinely elimininated using drones
Therefore, Bundy's supporters should have been killed by drones.

The logic is sound.


I didn't miss the point. The point was stupid so I tried to have a real conversation about the actual subject but, as usual, you have no desire to do that and went right back to your stupid point.


The actual subject of this thread is, "why do people become terrorists". It has nothing to do with Bundy situation except for the fact that Harry Reid just so happened to label protesters associated with the situation as terrorists. Your response is a rant about how stupid Bundy is. Talk about off-subject and completely irrelevant to the point. If you were to look back at the Slammer's posts in this thread, you'd understand the context better.
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