Obama looked Extremely Confident Last Night, GOP not so Much

Numbers and facts are hard things to deny.

Ok...

Statistics are funny things. They can be used to sell very misleading opinions.

LOL!

Rich people = Evil, Bad People

I'm confused, I thought that you were a Republican?

Let me know why Apple has 45,000 employees in the United States and over 500,000 in China "producing" their products.

Let me know why our glass business loses work every single day because it is cheaper to get the products in China

It's because you can't keep up with glass businesses in China.

I posted this article to another thread that specifically talks about Apple, and Chinese glass companies.

For Mr. Cook, the focus on Asia “came down to two things,” said one former high-ranking Apple executive. Factories in Asia “can scale up and down faster” and “Asian supply chains have surpassed what’s in the U.S.” The result is that “we can’t compete at this point,” the executive said.

The impact of such advantages became obvious as soon as Mr. Jobs demanded glass screens in 2007.

For years, cellphone makers had avoided using glass because it required precision in cutting and grinding that was extremely difficult to achieve. Apple had already selected an American company, Corning Inc., to manufacture large panes of strengthened glass. But figuring out how to cut those panes into millions of iPhone screens required finding an empty cutting plant, hundreds of pieces of glass to use in experiments and an army of midlevel engineers. It would cost a fortune simply to prepare.

Then a bid for the work arrived from a Chinese factory.

When an Apple team visited, the Chinese plant’s owners were already constructing a new wing. “This is in case you give us the contract,” the manager said, according to a former Apple executive. The Chinese government had agreed to underwrite costs for numerous industries, and those subsidies had trickled down to the glass-cutting factory. It had a warehouse filled with glass samples available to Apple, free of charge. The owners made engineers available at almost no cost. They had built on-site dormitories so employees would be available 24 hours a day.

The Chinese plant got the job.

“The entire supply chain is in China now,” said another former high-ranking Apple executive. “You need a thousand rubber gaskets? That’s the factory next door. You need a million screws? That factory is a block away. You need that screw made a little bit different? It will take three hours.”

...


Another critical advantage for Apple was that China provided engineers at a scale the United States could not match. Apple’s executives had estimated that about 8,700 industrial engineers were needed to oversee and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in manufacturing iPhones. The company’s analysts had forecast it would take as long as nine months to find that many qualified engineers in the United States.

In China, it took 15 days.

more...

Numbers and facts are hard things to deny.

Ok...

Statistics are funny things. They can be used to sell very misleading opinions.

LOL!

See what you did there? You pulled a twisteroooooooo. Numbers are not statistics. Mathematics can't lie. People who use those numbers to create statistics can. Nice try.

Let me know why Apple has 45,000 employees in the United States and over 500,000 in China "producing" their products.

Let me know why our glass business loses work every single day because it is cheaper to get the products in China

Let me know why almost everything you see is "Made In China"

Ok....so you have no answers or any way to justify the opinions you believe to be true.

As for your questions......

Apple has 500,000 employees in China because it makes sense for them to have them there. They don't have scaling issues, as Tech has pointed out, and they don't have to worry about environmental requirements. They're happy to pollute China and China is happy to let them.

That explanation carries over to your question about the "Made In China" label as well.

Your glass business loses money every day to Chinese glass because you have not adjusted your business to be able to compete in a global economy. Of course, you don't want to look inward and realize the truth so you just blame Obama, which might be easy but it's never going to help your parent's company.

But....I don't understand. You claimed to be doing more business than ever before. If that's true, (and nobody will be surprised that it's another lie from you), China and the business they're taking from you is not the problem at all. That's just another piece of bullshit you've adopted so that you don't have to take responsibility.

So....what's the truth? Is it China stealing your customers that's causing your problems or is it increased costs? I've already shown that both excuses are complete horseshit. What's next?

Rich people = Evil, Bad People

That was basically Obama's campaign speech last night

Numbers and facts are hard things to deny.

Statistics are funny things. They can be used to sell very misleading opinions.

See what you did there? You pulled a twisteroooooooo. Numbers are not statistics. Mathematics can't lie. People who use those numbers to create statistics can. Nice try.

Your opinion is that the economy is better than three years ago. Based on what exactly? You say the numbers. Ok, fine. Show me some economic numbers that aren't in the form of statistics.

Ok Dade... whatever you fucking say. Our glass business is doing just fine.

Like I have said many times and you are too fucking stubborn to register it in your fucking head.... The cost of producing products in this country is sharply more expensive than it was 3-4 years ago. Like I have said a million god damn times.. I do not care how we got here.. I do not care who the fuck got us here.. Obama is the President so it has happened under his watch.

Can't you just sit back and agree with me that the cost of manufacturing goods in this country is very expensive? Or are you too god damn stubborn to see this?

Numbers and facts are hard things to deny.

Statistics are funny things. They can be used to sell very misleading opinions.

See what you did there? You pulled a twisteroooooooo. Numbers are not statistics. Mathematics can't lie. People who use those numbers to create statistics can. Nice try.

Your opinion is that the economy is better than two years ago. Based on what exactly? You say the numbers. Ok, fine. Show me some economic numbers that aren't in the form of statistics.

I take a different view depending on which conversation we're having. If the conversation is like this one, where it starts with Icon making claims that are untrue and blaming Obama, I think that the numbers do not support that position.

If we look at unemployment, it is clear that the bleeding has stopped. The unemployment rate is going down, (even if we take into account all the factors of the calculation). It's clear that the markets are doing better than when he took office. It's clear that the banks are doing better than ever. It's clear that we have had many months of job growth.

Now.....I know where you start from with your opinions and I do not disagree. I would never try to make the case that the economy is more stable today than it was when he took office nor would I make the case that the housing market is better. My comments were specifically related to the conversation at hand. If we're judging Obama by the improvement or worsening of the immediate economy, we have to admit that things are better today than they were when he took over.

I don't "blame" Obama for what's going on. Is he doing anything to fix the real problems? NO. However, there are a few things he wants to do that I agree with and all I am being offered by the opposition is more tax cuts and more deregulation, which I think is a disaster.

Do I believe that Mitt Romney should pay only 14% in taxes because he makes his money from investments? NO. First of all, income is income. Why is income from investment treated differently than income from work? Furthermore, if Mitt lost money on those investments, he could use those losses as a tax deduction. The result is that the taxpayers take his risks and then they get less from the upside. How is that supposed to create jobs? Mitt made $43 million over 2 years with no downside. He didn't create a single job in doing so yet he got the tax breaks. It's not a good way to run a country.

You and I agree that neither side in this fight is worth a shit and are serving the exact same masters. I just think we should try to stick as closely to the truth as possible. I advocate no particular ideology. I look at each issue and apply my own common sense. In that respect, the day-to-day economy and unemployment is getting better. I'm not giving Barry the credit when I say that. I'm just saying that the bullshit doesn't match the numbers.

I participated last night in a Town Hall with my local Congressman, who is a Republican. The conversation turned to the Keystone Pipeline. He went on to quote potential job numbers that are nowhere near true. He claimed that the pipeline would "immediately create more than 20,000 jobs" in the USA. He went on to claim that there was near-universal agreement that it was safe for the environment. The way he framed it, it seemed like a no-brainer. He was shocked when I commented that his job numbers were wrong and that those were the estimates from the Canadian company seeking the contract approval. I told him that I had read the independent estimate and that it said that the pipeline would only create 2000 to 4000 jobs and that they would be short-term construction jobs. He stopped......thought a minute and then claimed that he hadn't looked at any of the independent studies.

So.....my Congressman took the info that suited his anti-Obama narrative from a foreign company seeking to make billions and didn't think it was even important to verify any of it.

He did the same on almost every topic. Every time I raised my hand, he winced but he NEVER had an answer to any of my questions. After the meeting, at least 20 people came to me to thank me for participating because they felt they had learned something. You know what they learned? They learned that, even though they agreed with him before they got there, there was another side to every story he told.

By the way....my Republican Congressman is still taking credit for the roads projects that are putting Federal money into our community that came from the Obama stimulus even while saying that the stimulus created zero jobs and was a failure. He got a standing O for that until I asked if it was stimulus funds and he had to admit that it was.

I participated last night in a Town Hall with my local Congressman, who is a Republican. The conversation turned to the Keystone Pipeline. He went on to quote potential job numbers that are nowhere near true. He claimed that the pipeline would "immediately create more than 20,000 jobs" in the USA. He went on to claim that there was near-universal agreement that it was safe for the environment. The way he framed it, it seemed like a no-brainer. He was shocked when I commented that his job numbers were wrong and that those were the estimates from the Canadian company seeking the contract approval. I told him that I had read the independent estimate and that it said that the pipeline would only create 2000 to 4000 jobs and that they would be short-term construction jobs. He stopped......thought a minute and then claimed that he hadn't looked at any of the independent studies.

So.....my Congressman took the info that suited his anti-Obama narrative from a foreign company seeking to make billions and didn't think it was even important to verify any of it.

He did the same on almost every topic. Every time I raised my hand, he winced but he NEVER had an answer to any of my questions. After the meeting, at least 20 people came to me to thank me for participating because they felt they had learned something. You know what they learned? They learned that, even though they agreed with him before they got there, there was another side to every story he told.

By the way....my Republican Congressman is still taking credit for the roads projects that are putting Federal money into our community that came from the Obama stimulus even while saying that the stimulus created zero jobs and was a failure. He got a standing O for that until I asked if it was stimulus funds and he had to admit that it was.

Way to go Dade..

If we look at unemployment, it is clear that the bleeding has stopped. The unemployment rate is going down, (even if we take into account all the factors of the calculation).

It's down because people's benefits have ran out. They base this on people who are collecting unemployed benefits. The actual number on unemployed workers are much much higher.

more deregulation

So, you are ripping me an asshole about the very thing that I have been bitching about. I get it flip flopper

Why is income from investment treated differently than income from work?

Because people investing their money into something (a business) is what helps create jobs in the Private Sector. For example.. if Mitt Romney never invested his money into Staples then Staples probably would not be the same company that we know today. The government rewards people who take risks when they invest in something.

As usual, Icon has managed to say something completely wrong and stupid. The money Romney made in the last two years, $43 million, was not invested in businesses nor did it create a single job. It was invested in all sorts of things....many offshore.

It's a myth that this type of investment creates jobs. Everyone can see that if they will only do a little work to find the truth. Unfortunately, most are stupid and lazy, like Icon, and will believe whatever they are fed. Thanks for proving my point.