More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship

Well you guys should be grateful you dont live in the UK, France or Sweden -basically any European country or Japan, you'd be flipping over the tax brackets there.

Well, I don't think I'd consider those countries if I was looking for a tax haven. It is a tricky proposition, but one can put their money offshore in one country, and live in another which doesn't tax on offshore assets. You could live and become a citizen in Europe and just have a basic job of sorts, and keep your real wealth in a tax shelter somewhere, and in theory the country you live in won't make a stink about it, according to the article.

Of course, the trick is to get the wealth first.

Some choose to become vagabonds and live in Thailand.

Pod, everything that you just said was all regarding financial reasons for leaving. I thought that we were talking about the symphonies in Vienna and the Montessori schools in Verona?

This thread is about flirtation with the un-patriotic, un-American act of leaving the United States forever and renouncing citizenship. Not to escape the status of financial pariah, because it seems to be the 'increasing numbers of renunciations' that were the purpose of that citation. Not to seek financial opportunity. And we can see that this thread has been more about money and taxation than about culture.

This thread is tea bagger rhetoric. "More American Expatriates Give Up Citizenship" is a headline designed to create the impression of a relevant and growing trend. A crisis in US politics that's so extreme that increasing numbers of people would flee the situation seeking a better life. But then you realize that the "trend" is basically two guys, which is a 100% increase over one guy. Which seems like a compelling statistic until you realize that more Americans are killed each year by aspirin poisoning, and that there are MILLIONS of foreign-born residents eager to take the places of those un-patriotic former Americans who consider their citizenship to be a burden.

I wasn't talking about culture, I was talking about money. I don't go to the symphony or have children, so concert halls and schools are secondary to me. If I dip, it's for financial reasons. Right now my tax burden isn't big at all, so I have no reason to leave. However, if the financial burden of being an American outweighs the benefits, I'll go somewhere else. Anyone making excuses about culture and such is kidding themselves. My thought is that for well-to-do people like yourself, it could get nasty soon.

However, if the financial burden of being an American outweighs the benefits, I'll go somewhere else. Anyone making excuses about culture and such is kidding themselves.

I can't think of a more un-patriotic concept than weighing the value of your citizenship against the value of the dollar. If Iran ran an embarrassment PR campaign where they paid American citizens one million dollars per year each to renounce their citizenship and move to Iran, then would you take it? You would be very "wealthy" if you took the money. Or would you?

Money is not wealth. Money is only a representation of wealth. A person's true wealth includes factors like his skills for making a living, his freedom, his connections within his community, his ability to live a lifestyle in accordance with his own beliefs and inner nature, and his connections to his family and friends. You can easily diminish your true wealth by seeking more money. Money is an illusion that can be useful when it represents wealth, but it can also distract from the accumulation of true wealth.

What I want to know in all of this is, where are they going? If the decision is financial, they have to weigh what they're getting for their tax dollars. Most countries in Europe have far higher tax rates than we do. Sure, you get some socialized medicine but I'm not sure that's enough. So, where do they go?

I never claimed to be patriotic. I'm just realistic. If I'm paying a 70 percent tax rate and it's going to unjust wars, the oil companies, and civil oppression, I'm out.

If I paid 70 percent and there were intrinsic benefits for me and society, then fine, I can deal with that.

Like I said, right now, I have no reason to do this. The US of A gets to be blessed by my presence for the foreseeable future. But I'm not going to ignore the fact that things could get bad at some point.

I really don't understand "patriotism." Why is it that, due solely to an accident of nature, I am supposed to blindly support this country? If I was born in North Korea, should I be obligated to support the policies of the Great Leader? Call me unpatriotic, if you want, but I'm not wired that way. I have relatives that I don't care for. I don't hang with them or pretend to love them just because we share a couple of bits of DNA.

Why am I Catholic just because I was born to people who were Catholic? It makes no sense to me. I don't believe in the doctrine of the Catholic Church. How can I be Catholic?

The idea of "Patriotism" is just another way for government to maintain control over us. By the way, American patriotism is often the worst because it's usually accompanied by the notion that we are superior and that the rest of the world should do as we say.

I'm not following Ryan's logic here. I joined the conversation late, but I still think from that article, someone like him should be concerned. You too, Dade. Both you guys are successful independent businesspeople with a fair amount of personal wealth. These changes could make things difficult for you guys. I'm not saying that the USA sucks, but I'm just thinking those of means should be cautious in their asset management.

I see nothing in that article to worry about. Why should anyone care that 500 out of 5 million people, who already live abroad, gave up their citizenship to save a few bucks?