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Jamie Jones, Black Coffee Vegas 2018 Residency- thoughts?

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Postby colione98 on 04 Jan 2018 01:48

Jamie Jones, Black Coffee Vegas 2018 Residency- thoughts?

I wanted to get some critical night life perspective from the true vets.. Do you think it will work? What are your predictions for this total opposite move in a place that hasn't cultivated a true and/or authentic dance scene as of late?

Having recently moved to Vegas this past July from DC, I have finally been able to really get a clear understanding of the electronic/dj scene here. Again, being from New York, and having lived in Miami, with you guys, for over 9 years, these places surrounded with diverse scenes living together as a community, Vegas is a totally different animal. From jump, upon arrival, you can literally feel the divide between the underground scene aka "downtown local vegas", and the mainstream aka the "vegas strip". Outside of the strip, Vegas has a REALLY local feel to it- with no hard hitting representation of main artists... Even though miami has a tourist feel to it, these are often return tourists with family and friends spread throughout dade, broward, west Palm, downtown, south beach, etc.. Vegas has no such cross-mingling and exposure to neighboring cities/counties.

That being said, the Vegas strip has been home to all the biggest EDM/Trap producer djs for well over 5 years, now. The underground really doesn't have a counter argument as these clubs are where the underground djs are supposed to rise up to once they have made it- but haven't been doing so. In Miami, for example, when you make it, you endnup at space or other hotel venues. There isn't this "you sold out" shade being thrown around- like here in Vegas.

Unfortunately, we have reached a culture by where the underground has gone so far to remove itself from the mainstream that it by default, it doesn't allow djs to rise up to the mainstream in order to counter the BS that they don't like. So, what we have is two extremes- tech house/techno VS EDM- hence, Vegas bringing tech-house aka hipster house, as THEY call the music of Solomun.

While this may work for some selective scenes, not everyone is into techno/tech-house or EDM today because each subculture has filled in and has its own genuine following. Unfortunately, gone are the days where we had classic electronic anthems of trance, acid, techno, house, and under one roof, creating shared moments that everyone enjoyed- and there wasn't this battle of culture.

Now that the likes of Jones, Solomun, and Black Coffee are coming to town, it sort of breeds a sense of in-authenticity with many of the commenters saying things such as "finally, underground is coming to the strip".. It's as if some of these folks have never been in a thriving scene before. Furthermore, you have articles promoting this move by using the term headiness, deeper, darker, etc.. Not only that, the article even champions Solomun as a "hipster house favorite".

Now, while many young djs might not understand the importance of this, as they are still finding their way into the industry, I am more thinking of the overall cultural impact that a move like this can have.

I am not saying that this move can't work, nor am I against it; on the contrary. What I am merely saying is that certain things will need to happen in order for Vegas to finally emerge as a thriving dance music scene:

1- you can't promote a newness by saying things like "Wynn Las Vegas wants to be the first to welcome the headiest of dance fans into its mega-club folds". Countering a long standing EDM scene in Vegas shouldn't be by using phrases like "a major sonic shift of headiness fans"- this will create more of divide in an already shaky atmosphere, and possibly RUIN a perfect opportunity... You must create a BALANCE between the two extreme sounds of EDM/Tech-house...

2- vegas strip promoters are going to have to go downtown and hand pick the veteran underground djs and help them rise to the mainstream, so that they can in-turn and look back and help up and coming djs from downtown.

3- down town djs are going to have to stop throwing shade at the strip and take this as an opportunity to NOT get rid of EDM, but create a place for quality club music to also thrive on the strip... We have to help our artists thrive, not keep them in the underground forever....

Your thoughts...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.billboard.com/amp/articles/news/dance/8085866/solomun-jamie-jones-black-coffee-las-vegas-wynn-2018

The tide of dance music has been turning. Fans who once flocked to bright neon lights and big room drops now seek deeper, darker sounds, and while Las Vegas will always be home to all that glitters, Wynn Las Vegas wants to be the first to welcome the headiest of dance fans into its megaclub folds.

In 2018, the nightlife brand welcomes leaders of the underground tech house revolution with exclusive residencies from Solomun, Jamie Jones and Black Coffee. It's a major sonic shift for the Strip, and one Wynn's managing partner Alex Cordova thinks can only bolster a growing segment of American dance fans.

“These first-ever tech house residencies on the Strip will showcase three of the biggest names in the genre,” Cordova says in a press release. "Tech house continues to rise in popularity in the United States and abroad, and we look forward to bringing and expanding this music style into our programming.”

Solomun's +1 parties have been a huge hit in Ibiza for years, and its U.S. expansion tour in 2017 made him a hipster house favorite. Jamie Jones has been one of the underground's leading DJs since the mid-2000s, and his label Hot Creations has made him a tastemaker beyond the decks. Black Coffee helped put South Africa on the dance floor map and blew up so hard last year, we had to name him one of our DJs who dominated in 2017.

The three selectors are true purveyors of groundbreaking sound and style, and they join Wynn's roster of mainstream stars, including The Chainsmokers, Diplo and Afrojack in 2018. Visit Wynn online for tickets and more information.

The tide of dance music has been turning. Fans who once flocked to bright neon lights and big room drops now seek deeper, darker sounds, and while Las Vegas will always be home to all that glitters, Wynn Las Vegas wants to be the first to welcome the headiest of dance fans into its megaclub folds.

In 2018, the nightlife brand welcomes leaders of the underground tech house revolution with exclusive residencies from Solomun, Jamie Jones and Black Coffee. It's a major sonic shift for the Strip, and one Wynn's managing partner Alex Cordova thinks can only bolster a growing segment of American dance fans.

“These first-ever tech house residencies on the Strip will showcase three of the biggest names in the genre,” Cordova says in a press release. "Tech house continues to rise in popularity in the United States and abroad, and we look forward to bringing and expanding this music style into our programming.”

Solomun's +1 parties have been a huge hit in Ibiza for years, and its U.S. expansion tour in 2017 made him a hipster house favorite. Jamie Jones has been one of the underground's leading DJs since the mid-2000s, and his label Hot Creations has made him a tastemaker beyond the decks. Black Coffee helped put South Africa on the dance floor map and blew up so hard last year, we had to name him one of our DJs who dominated in 2017.

The three selectors are true purveyors of groundbreaking sound and style, and they join Wynn's roster of mainstream stars, including The Chainsmokers, Diplo and Afrojack in 2018. Visit Wynn online for tickets and more information.
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Postby TechJunkie on 04 Jan 2018 02:20

Re: Jamie Jones, Black Coffee Vegas 2018 Residency- thoughts

2 and 3 are obviously unrealistic.
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Postby DannyD on 04 Jan 2018 04:27

Re: Jamie Jones, Black Coffee Vegas 2018 Residency- thoughts

Surface not even scratched.... Wish I could speak more without jeopardizing my livelihood....
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Postby pod on 04 Jan 2018 10:42

Re: Jamie Jones, Black Coffee Vegas 2018 Residency- thoughts

There's enough room for more than one style of electronic music in Vegas.

The biggest player in town, Hakkasan Group, has the commercial electronic music DJs on lock. Tiësto, Calvin Harris, Zedd, and so on, all have multiyear contracted residencies at their clubs. There's fuck-all left over for everyone else.

Wynn is taking a chance on "less Vegas-y" sounds not really because they want to, but because they have to. However, like any organization with an army of analysts at their disposal, they are making an informed decision rather than just throwing spitwads at the listing of DJs on the CAA website. They're looking to Ibiza and seeing the success stories emanating from the White Isle.

As of late, the Ibiza successes aren't people like Tiësto, Zedd, and Calvin Harris. Yes, most of them will do the obligatory Ushuaïa date or whatever, but it's not a big part of their schedule, especially when they get fuck-you money in Vegas. I'm not gonna dedicate my time to Ushuaïa and get so-so treatment there. I'm going to Vegas where the folk at Hakkasan will roll out the red carpet for me, give me an amazing paycheck, and treat me like God. The big EDM guys are the modern incarnations of Wayne Newton, Danny Gans, and so on. They don't need Ibiza.

The Ibiza success stories these days are Jamie Jones, Black Coffee, and Solomun. If you're on the White Isle, you aren't queueing up for Calvin Harris, you're standing in line for an hour and paying €80 to go to +1, Music On, or something similar. It's more about the techno and house. The Euro VIPs eat it up.

So, what I see is the Wynn looking to lure those Euro VIPs, especially considering nowadays BA, and several other big airlines offer direct flights from the UK and the Continent to Vegas. Their analysts see a potential source of revenue in these DJs, and they don't have to get into a bidding war with their bigger neighbor. The DJs may not be of the Vegas sound per se, but they can really just perform a "festival set" and it may work, especially if the parties have a theme and branding similar to Ibiza. You don't pay for just Solomun. There's plenty of DJs who can sling that sound just as well. You're paying for his name, the brand, and the experience of the +1 parties. It could very well just work and add another element of entertainment to Vegas.

As for the local DJs in Vegas, I don't think they are even part of this equation unfortunately. Someone might get lucky and get an opening slot, but it's gonna be the same old song and dance that I saw, where one was hard-pressed to even find a local DJ of notoriety. There's no Oscar G in Vegas.

This is gonna play hell with Miami though. Solomun, JJ, and Black Coffee are already hideously expensive, and the only ones booking them in town are Grutman and the agglomeration of people running Space these days, so I foresee that their prices will rise, and you'll only really see these guys at LIV or Story.

It presents an opportunity for other DJs though in Miami - with these guys pricing themselves out of our market, other talent can move in.

Sheesh, that was hard. I haven't ranted about nightclubs in awhile.
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Postby colione98 on 04 Jan 2018 15:36

Re: Jamie Jones, Black Coffee Vegas 2018 Residency- thoughts

TechJunkie wrote:2 and 3 are obviously unrealistic.


I know you were pressed for time, and haven't warmed up yet. I know there is so good unmatched insight you aren't revealing... :D
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Postby colione98 on 04 Jan 2018 16:45

Re: Jamie Jones, Black Coffee Vegas 2018 Residency- thoughts

pod wrote:There's enough room for more than one style of electronic music in Vegas.

If you're on the White Isle, you aren't queueing up for Calvin Harris, you're standing in line for an hour and paying €80 to go to +1, Music On, or something similar. It's more about the techno and house. The Euro VIPs eat it up.

So, what I see is the Wynn looking to lure those Euro VIPs, especially considering nowadays BA, and several other big airlines offer direct flights from the UK and the Continent to Vegas.

The biggest player in town, Hakkasan Group, has the commercial electronic music DJs on lock. Tiësto, Calvin Harris, Zedd, and so on, all have multiyear contracted residencies at their clubs. There's fuck-all left over for everyone else.

Sheesh, that was hard. I haven't ranted about nightclubs in awhile.


You came through for a brother, I really appreciate it!! Now that we have gotten that out of the way, let's get deeper into the cultural/financial aspects.. I am not on the line for anybody, so I can go in as MUCH as I want to.

Just to give you a quick perspective on the local economy here- I live in a 3 bedroom, 2 car garage near Government quarters. I pay $1500 a month rent and live 25 min from the Strip/downtown. On any given day, because I am local, I get tons of discounted local perks and my family of 4 all eat at casino buffets for $45 (not each, BUT ALL 4 OF US).

Back to the scene,

I have watched quite a few intense interviews with Yann Pissenem of Ushuaia. In 2013, the Aisle couldn't support all of those underground acts in one space because it wasn't feasible to pay all that money for the artists like Loco Dice, with the so-called "underground" audience not paying their partying dues.
Even David Vincent of Sankeys said that Loco Dice was better suited at Ushuaia due to the formerly stated. Both he and Yann stated that there is NO SUCH THING AS UNDERGROUND, especially when you have billboards and all types of big brand commercial marketing on the aisle..

Let's not get it twisted, these same underground acts are demanding high sums of money- just as they are in Vegas. Remember, there is no different between a Calvin Harris and Solomun- just the music... There has been an erasure of what it means to be pop vs underground today in terms of style, culture, edginess, and youth appeal. Counter culture of the past was COOLER than pop stars. Today, Lady Gaga, Rhianna, is just as cool, strange, and appealing to the youth as Ritchie Hawtin is- in fact, many of the youth listen to all three....

However, by cultural norm, it is indeed a paradox, which is:

#A- why I question Pod, as to how this Wynn move is being marketed as sleek, deeper, and heady to a specific Euro crowd, when that is totally counter to the type of experience that Vegas and Wynn has to offer...Wynn has all types of services as you enter. It's not just a simple- pay your $60 and drink/dance/chill. It's the night pool, the look, the free towels, the large gift shop, THE EXPERIENCE that all costs... You can't bring sleek, heady, and dark into that environment.... It's damaging to the culture because the heady, sleek, and deeper crowd will come with an assumption, but be left with further resentment.

#1- house/techno doesn't really make money on the strip like that. Erick Morillo comes and he loses money, infact. He can't even fill up pool side, which is why you don't see him here as much as in LA with Pato..

#2- Tech after-hours at Drais on the strip is often followed and/or shadowed by hip hop stage acts like Fabolous, Fat Joe, Drake, etc.. on the same night.

#3- I have been to XS Wynn on a Sunday night, where the indoor rooms and pool area merge for a GRAND experience. And guess who is opening up for these big EDM djs, who actually start off their night with TRAP, not electronic EDM? Local OPEN FORMAT djs- playing 90s hip hop and R&B.. #Facts!! They do this to keep the tourist crowd there.. This was news to me and had to do some research after I heard that transition...

Now, let me end off by saying that neither of these men- jones, coffee, solomun, in their current state, is my cup of tea. Since 2011 or so, I haven't been able to relate to the hipster/tech sound that has invaded the dance scene. Even the martinez brothers literally have had to rebrand themselves in order to fit dominant euro/hipster culture- the rebranding part is official.

2ndly, I called it 1 year ago, when black coffee and that "afro-sound" was on the rise- even in pop music. I said that in dance, and as time went on, the afro-sound as we know it, would turn more in to hipster tech. Sure enough, it has become more tech than afro.. Sure enough, Black - Coffee has had to make some changes in order to appeal to the Euro crowd. Even the house as you hear today, isn't "proper house"- it's ALTERNATIVE house, because it has nothing to do with the original rooted culture.

MY PREDICTION- the same tech-techno sound on the Ibiza aisle or in Miami/New York WILL NOT WORK in Vegas, which is why there is a need for a more balanced approach. I am not a tech/financial guru- my expertise is social and reading/understanding trends of how people move. Vegas EDM acts are opened by Hip Hop djs because it's not about the music, it's about the experience.

Finally, I am not pushing for anything either way. Yes, it would be nice to see Vegas emerge, since I am living here. I am more about the BIGGER picture..
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Postby colione98 on 04 Jan 2018 17:01

Re: Jamie Jones, Black Coffee Vegas 2018 Residency- thoughts

TLDR;

Here is another insider secret..

I work as a side gig the side for an event management group here in Vegas. The only way I can have a better understanding of how things work is to immerse myself in these environments. I work the T-mobile, MGM grand, and other sites. This past week, I worked UFC 219 and saw all the gang up close and personal- Joe Rogan, Cyborg, Mike tyson and friends.

At the end of the fight, you heard all types of big wig owners, who live RIGHT HERE in Vegas, talking about - "I don't want to go to (fill in the club name), it's too loud with bang, bang, bang, and I can't hear myself speak". These are well over 50-60 year old honchos trying to go out and have a good time, but can't find a suitbale environment. I hear this all they time!

Now, you promote to them some sleek, dark, dank, heady environment (which would never be the case anyway, as Vegas can't afford to lose that money) they wouldn't go to that.

What Vegas lacks is a friendly Delano, Space, Heart type of environment, where you can fill in the blank and not get so caught up... It's coming, but the right people have to know how to navigate it. Unfortunately, today, there are more people who don't have the social consciousness, as they do the technological/financial value. Today, technology is being muddled with many tech gurus, who's brains are wired differently than someone like me- who is more into understanding and reading people and their emotions.

Again, I am not tooting my horn. I give props to guys like Tech junkie, POD, and everyone else in their own niche. I just have a talent for picking up on social trends early on. It's my gift...

P.S- who was the one, on this very TNL site 4 years ago, rebelling against the fact that underground was moving too far away from the center? Who was the one speaking on this massive divide in the horizon between EDM and Tech, where most on this site were happy to have their Italian djs play techno all night (and get mad when they played house)?
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Postby TechJunkie on 05 Jan 2018 02:09

Re: Jamie Jones, Black Coffee Vegas 2018 Residency- thoughts

colione98 wrote:
TechJunkie wrote:2 and 3 are obviously unrealistic.


I know you were pressed for time, and haven't warmed up yet. I know there is so good unmatched insight you aren't revealing... :D


Worked with Alex for years, his assistant works for me now. I must recuse myself from this conversation.

That friendly vibe you’re looking for is downtown. Griffin. That vibe will never happen on the strip.
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Postby colione98 on 07 Jan 2018 22:58

Re: Jamie Jones, Black Coffee Vegas 2018 Residency- thoughts

TechJunkie wrote:
colione98 wrote:
TechJunkie wrote:2 and 3 are obviously unrealistic.


I know you were pressed for time, and haven't warmed up yet. I know there is so good unmatched insight you aren't revealing... :D


Worked with Alex for years, his assistant works for me now. I must recuse myself from this conversation.

That friendly vibe you’re looking for is downtown. Griffin. That vibe will never happen on the strip.


One day, and that day may never come, we would have had this conversation and you not even know it. But, I with all respect due understand and will not press you further.
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Postby colione98 on 07 Jan 2018 23:04

Re: Jamie Jones, Black Coffee Vegas 2018 Residency- thoughts

Another observation...

Just like in any endeavor, cats go from cool junkies to entrepreneurs who can't speak about the industry.. I respect it and understand where it comes from..

The observation is exactly what I am referencing- we tell our peers to stay underground, while we go off and make an undisclosed amount of money and mingle with our undisclosed peer members. I see it as a positive, but many see it as selling out..

As long as the integrity remains, that is all that counts... However, you CANNOT tell me that there isn't similarities as it pertains to those who are in the nightlife game..

This is why I also say- as oppose to hip hop, the electronic music industry is the worst at interviews because nobody engages in real life industry talk....

Again, no shots taken, just an observation...
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