Perfect example on why the guide sucks ass..

[Ryan]

Dade I'm not disagreeing with your advice and I appreciate the free biz consultation. I'm just don't know what problem you're trying to solve? TNL is designed to be a drama magnet and it's obviously working.

I'm not going to pretend otherwise just to project positive PR vibes.

There is a way to say what you want and be honest without any negative impact. Again, it's about the tone you use.

What problem are you trying to solve? You think I'm tarnishing the image of TNL, the company, when there is no such company? TNL is a web site. If it gets a reputation for drama then that's a good thing not a bad thing.

There's no company? I was under the impression that you were, infact, a company. TNL doesn't sell anything? Advertisers don't pay for their ads?Websites are not companies? I guess I was wrong......someone should tell Amazon or Google that they're only websites and not companies.

Here's some trivia for you: I don't even know for certain who owns this web site.

If that doesn't say it all, I don't know what does. Here's a hint: Find the person that paid you to build it and you've found the owner. the paperwork may say something different but we all know how that goes.

Dade I'm not disagreeing with your advice and I appreciate the free biz consultation. I'm just don't know what problem you're trying to solve? TNL is designed to be a drama magnet and it's obviously working.

I agree with that except that I think the drama isn't supposed to be started by the company's employees and it should certainly not be about the company. Let HTM start the drama with his tax research.

[Ryan]

What problem are you trying to solve?

There's no company?

You answered a question with a question. What problem are you trying to solve? If you're concerned about our ability to sell ads then what I should be doing is deleting negative threads about Aero Bar, Dream, Space, etc. Is that the problem that you're trying to solve?

Here's some trivia for you: I don't even know for certain who owns this web site.

If that doesn't say it all, I don't know what does. Here's a hint: Find the person that paid you to build it and you've found the owner. the paperwork may say something different but we all know how that goes.

What "all" does that say? The trail leads to more than one person and I honestly have no idea who owns the site. Nor do I care. Somebody backed me while I built a drama magnet and now it's working. What that says is that I'm a mercenary. No big shocker there.

Dade I'm not disagreeing with your advice and I appreciate the free biz consultation. I'm just don't know what problem you're trying to solve? TNL is designed to be a drama magnet and it's obviously working.

I agree with that except that I think the drama isn't supposed to be started by the company's employees and it should certainly not be about the company. Let HTM start the drama with his tax research.

Meta-drama about TNL on TNL is boring and pointless. But I'm not tarnishing the image of TNL or any company by admitting openly that Venue Driver is my focus and TNL is on the back burner. Since you're so interested though, Venue Driver officially goes beta today, it's feature-complete as of today. That plus other changes in the landscape now push TNL to a higher priority.

But first, I get to take my first vacation since November...

Simply put, Ryan, the problem I was trying to give you advice on was the one where an employee of the "ownerless non-company" was on a public message board giving the impression that the "invisible venue driving empire" cares not.

Why you keep confusing the issue and spouting off about deleting threads and sanitizing user conversations is beyond me. That's so far from what I've been talking about i can't figure out why you keep saying it.

All I was suggesting was that when employees of the invisible owner make public statements that they are sure those statements benefit the non-existant yet benevolent owner.

And you never answered my question. Why isn't it a company? You sell a product and seek profit from this site, after all.

[Ryan]

1) I am nobody's employee. Never have been. Never will be.

2) I obviously do care about TNL or I wouldn't be here discussing its design with you and deploying new software updates.

You're going around in circles, now you're saying that I project an image of not caring about TNL? News to me, I thought that your previous suggestion to me was that Pod and I are too defensive because we care too much. You think it's going to harm TNL's ability to sell ads because people are going to think that I don't care about the site?

I can't imagine how anybody could take it as a sign that I don't care, that I show up here every day and endure people like Honky saying rude things about my work. Some people may think that I'm a little snarky. Some people may think that I'm a loser nerd with no life. Some people may think that I'm a guy under pressure who really needs to take a vacation and get laid. All of those things are true. But I don't think that many people think that I just don't care, since I'm here ALL DAY, EVERY DAY.

1) I am nobody's employee. Never have been. Never will be.

2) I obviously do care about TNL or I wouldn't be here discussing its design with you and deploying new software updates.

You're going around in circles, now you're saying that I project an image of not caring about TNL? News to me, I thought that your previous suggestion to me was that Pod and I are too defensive because we care too much. You think it's going to harm TNL's ability to sell ads because people are going to think that I don't care about the site?

I can't imagine how anybody could take it as a sign that I don't care, that I show up here every day and endure people like Honky saying rude things about my work. Some people may think that I'm a little snarky. Some people may think that I'm a loser nerd with no life. Some people may think that I'm a guy under pressure who really needs to take a vacation and get laid. All of those things are true. But I don't think that many people think that I just don't care, since I'm here ALL DAY, EVERY DAY.

Whatever.

Like it or not, when you, (or the one-man corporation you are), were paid to do work for TNL and VD, you became an employee. How many other companies are you performing services for at the moment? You work out of their offices. You have keys to their offices. You "show up here every day and endure people like Honky saying rude things about my work". Sounds like an employee to me. But if it makes you feel better that they don't take taxes out of your check, you go boy! By the way - Look up the IRS's definition of a "full-time employee" and I think you'll see you fit the bill.

And please stop putting words in my mouth. I believe you do care. What I was commenting on was the fact that every time someone says something needs to be addressed on this site your answer is a version of "TNL means nothing and it's only a tiny part of VD so we aren't going to devote any more time to it than we have to." As someone who really likes this site, I feel that undervalues it and makes me feel like I shouldn't care about it as much as I should.

If you one day figure out who owns the place and it turns out that he wants me to feel that way, nevermind everything I've said. But if he actually wants the users to believe they and this site are important, then I'm right.

And....again....why is a it not a business because it's a website? I'm still waiting to learn some new-market stuff about internet-based non-business. You see, I have a website that makes my wife and I a pretty damn good living and I have been thinking of it as a business and acting accordingly. Now I learn that I've been wron this whole time and I want to know why.

[Ryan]

I'm not an employee by the IRS definition or any other. I built TNL from my balcony, from my pool deck, from the library, sometimes from my office in my wife's law firm, and now I spend a lot of time at TNL HQ now that there is one. There wasn't when I built TNL. Nobody gave me an assignment, I picked my own objectives. Nobody sets my hours.

My concern is making sure that Venue Driver does its job and that it's solid. And our Venue Driver customers shouldn't get the impression that I spend my time blogging on TNL when I should be making sure that she ship's hull isn't leaking. Correct?

I think that you're falling into the trap that you accuse us of: taking blabber that happens on TNL too seriously. I still just don't think that many people care what I think or say. But your point is duly noted, and in fact TNL may be a much higher priority next week than it was this week. TNL has always been a side project to work on when Venue Driver development was stalled for one reason or another. But priorities change.

When I post in a week or two about pushing TNL forward you'll know that I'm not full of shit because I don't spout PR vapor unless it's real. I see value in credibility even if you don't, because most of the talk in the nightlife industry is vapor that never happens for real. That's my firm opinion, formed partly my my mistakenly believing what you said a few years ago about opening a new nightclub. I designed TNL to act as a counterbalance against that kind of useless PR vapor. It works so well that it comes back to bite me in the ass in threads like this, but I like it that way.

I have no idea what all that talk of "vapor" and such is supposed to mean to me but ..... OK.

Does that mean you're never going to answer the question I asked you? I mean, isn't a conversation supposed to be a two way thing? I keep answering the questions you ask but you keep talking around mine.

And I get it....VD is the priority. Why you feel you need to keep repeating that is beyond me. I also understand why. What I don't understand is why you think a website isn't a business despite the fact that they're engaged in business commerce. I don't get why you think you don't represent the company when you speak about the company and its plans and that we're of the same status in the TNL world. What I don't understand is......fuck it....I quit....you win.

Tnl is not a business because it's a website. You're not an employee. Nobody cares what you say. Pod ate your homework. Yes we can. Whatever.

[Ryan]

Does that mean you're never going to answer the question I asked you?

TNL is a web site project with the potential to become a business. I'll concede your point that part of making the transition from a skunk works project to a business is to stop talking about how it's a skunk works project. You win on that one, only because the date is approaching when I get to prioritize TNL more.

I have no idea what all that talk of "vapor" and such is supposed to mean to me but ..... OK.

About five years ago you told me a bunch of things that I made the mistake of believing. It was complete vapor. You told me about VIP hosts taking bottle orders with PDAs and all kinds of other stuff that was just vapor. That hurt your credibility more than I harmed any company's credibility by openly admitting that TNL was a skunk works project and not a priority. If you can't even figure out who owns TNL, and I can't either, then I'm not harming their reputation by anything that I say. Much less by being honest and avoiding vaporware announcements that I know that I can't back up with reality.

My talent is making ideas into reality. Not spouting PR.

LMAO Dade. Thanks much for brightening my day with that great laugh.