Perfect example on why the guide sucks ass..

[Ryan]

Speaking for what company? TNL? TNL is not a company. I myself am a company, and I don't care if you think that I'm an opinionated programmer nerd. Or if you think that TNL is run by opinionated programmer nerds. See it just doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. TNL is designed that way on purpose.

If anybody saying negative things here affects us negatively, it's the people trying as hard as they can to find dirt to post about potential advertisers like Aero Bar, Dream, etc. But we don't stop people from doing that because a real conversation is more interesting than a PR newsfeed.

Speaking for what company? TNL? TNL is not a company. I myself am a company, and I don't care if you think that I'm an opinionated programmer nerd. Or if you think that TNL is run by opinionated programmer nerds. See it just doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. TNL is designed that way on purpose.

There you go again. TNL isn't to be taken seriously or cared about. It's designed to be shit on and treated like a stepchild.

why bother with it at all then? Just pull the plug and have it over with.

[Ryan]

Why are you thinking that there are only two alternatives? Either we groom it carefully like some kind of PR bonsai tree and we never say anything negative, or we give up and pull the plug.

That's boring. I didn't want to create another press release news feed, I wanted to enable real conversation. When you let people have real conversations sometimes they say bitchy things.

Who's image are you so concerned about, Dade? Mine? Why does it impact TNL if people think that I'm an asshole? If this were a blog and I were the only voice then you would have a point. But this is a crowded room and I'm one voice out of many. Nobody cares what I think. They only care what I can build.

"if you build it they will come"

I think everyone's confused. We care about TNL from a technical and aesthetic standpoint. We're gonna fix a lot of what you guys want fixed.

Where we 'don't care' is in what you guys say. We're going for the whole freedom aspect here. For example, Club Legend is constantly reminding us of LP's issues. I would be pitching a fit right now normally, but I'm confident that him and his staff can separate Club Legend from TNL. His opinions are his, mine are mine, yours are yours.

Dream bought an ad from us for next Friday, Club Legend then proceeds to post shit about them, coincidentally or not. Dream hasn't said anything. I think they understand the dividing line here. Club Legend thought I was gonna ban him. Nah, we still love him.

[Ryan]

We're gonna fix a lot of what you guys want fixed.

I already fixed what Honky pointed out before I started getting into this debate.

Why are you thinking that there are only two alternatives? Either we groom it carefully like some kind of PR bonsai tree and we never say anything negative, or we give up and pull the plug.

That's boring. I didn't want to create another press release news feed, I wanted to enable real conversation. When you let people have real conversations sometimes they say bitchy things.

Who's image are you so concerned about, Dade? Mine? Why does it impact TNL if people think that I'm an asshole? If this were a blog and I were the only voice then you would have a point. But this is a crowded room and I'm one voice out of many. Nobody cares what I think. They only care what I can build.

You really don't get what I'm saying so I will try and be more clear.

1. I have never suggested that you have to be something other than who and what you are.

2. I have never suggested that you "groom" anything.

3. I am neither concerned about your image nor you being an asshole. I am not your employer. If I was, I would only be concerned about how you are representing my company to the public. As the person who signs your check, I would have that right and would exercise it.

4. Whether you realize it or not, everything you say in response to questions about the company you work for or as a commentary about your work, does reflect on your company, your bosses and your job.

5. Your characterization of yours as just another voice among the many is plain stupid. Even your name appears in bold red to indicate you have authority and that you speak for the company, such as it is.

6. As is evident in the numerous threads you have participated in, many here care what you say. Again, if I was your boss, it would be my job to care. If yours doesn't, he's wrong too.

The real question is why would you think it's ok to say whatever you want about your employer's company? Why do you think he spent money paying you to develop this site but would want you portraying it as something less-than-important?

All I said was that you could say what you're saying without the whole, "I'm too busy with something important to bother getting this thing we've asked all you to be a part of to work properly."

Example: You say, "venue driver pays the bills, not this little insignificant site so I am working on that and this can stay beta forever as far as we're concerned." Why not just say "Be patient, we're busy with other p[arts of the project and we'll get to it in time."?

You developed this site for some reason. Your boss paid you to do it for a reason. Why give people the impression that you don't care about it?

Why give people the impression that you don't care about it?

I'm going to go out on a very short limb here and say that you are in a very tiny minority that are getting that impression.

[Ryan]

Obviously I care about TNL or I wouldn't have fixed the problem that Honky pointed out before coming here to debate about it.

If one project has priority over another project then it just does, it's a simple matter of fact. No emotion there, just fact. TNL really was "less important" than NapkinNights over the last year. And certainly far less important than Venue Driver. I'm not going to pretend otherwise just to project positive PR vibes.

What problem are you trying to solve? You think I'm tarnishing the image of TNL, the company, when there is no such company? TNL is a web site. If it gets a reputation for drama then that's a good thing not a bad thing. Dade, you know who the investor is but most people reading this don't know and don't care. They just want to see accurate event listings, some might also want to see interesting conversation, maybe some photos.

Here's some trivia for you: I don't even know for certain who owns this web site.

Why give people the impression that you don't care about it?

I'm going to go out on a very short limb here and say that you are in a very tiny minority that are getting that impression.

Listen.....I have two business degrees, have run successful companies and have many years of marketing experience. There are things that are considered applicable to any business and this is one.

I may, as you say, be in the minority but if even one person has gotten that inpression, it's too many.